From maintaining eye contact to managing arousal, here's her ultimate . But youre right, there is a practical difficulty there in actually becoming Orthodox. Look at all the conflicting doctrines found in the Protestant denominations - do you think none of them have scripture verses backing them up? While there is nothing inherently bad or wrong about the modern Roman Catholic Mass, its celebration often falls short of early Christianity, which used hymns over a millennium old written by saints, chanting, and incense. What steps would I take to become an Orthodox Christian? Founder, Lead Pastor at MPowered Christian Ministries. The Orthodox Church, Penguin Books, 2558). Ex. Thats okay. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. this is based of off a mistranslation of Romans 5. you are born inclined to sin and mortal, but are only guilty of the sins you commit. Second, Pope Benedict is Patriarch of the West. This seemed to put the question of purgatory in the category of the word fights that Paul warns us against (cf. Why do Orthodox Christians keep a vigil at the Tomb of Christ? Hello, and welcome to Focus, the Catholic Answers podcast for living, understanding and defending your Catholic faith. I should give some background. I'll ask a more direct question, then: Why should I believe the Pope is who he says he is? I recognized the force of the Catholic arguments concerning the subject. It kind of reminds me of this, my children, every night, I have them clean the kitchen. Leedo, you may note from the insignia near my name that I myself am Catholic. Again, thats objectively. Im not saying that youre automatically damned-. It seems particularly true now, there is just so much to endure in order to stay a part of the Christian faith and in particular, to stay a part of the Catholic Church. I have difficulty accepting this view. Proof God Exists Why Or How Is It Even Relevant To Us? I also recognized thatifPeter were the rock Christ speaks of in Matthew 16:18, this would make him the earthly leader of the Church in Jesus absence. Within the Orthodox church, is there more of an emphasis on worshipping God out of love/reverence, rather than fear? This new Mass is often celebrated in America with guitars, modern Catholic hymns dating to the twentieth century, and in some rare cases, even Protestant rock music such as Hillsong. It would be much harder to maintain that the Catholic Church is a false super-church that dwarfs the true Church. One of the reasons why I think thats bad, even for Catholics is because as a Catholic you should want to see reunion with Eastern Orthodox. The focus on Christs glorious resurrection and destruction of death by death in Orthodoxy bears more fruit in my soul than the focus on Christ paying our penalty for sin in Catholicism. Thats not to say they dont have any unity with the church He established, but it is to say they dont have a perfect unity with Christ in his church. I have read many things on the internet, as well as a number of books about the Church's faith, worship and history. and our Leevo, if you are interested I have a copy this book. The whole thing about the "confession of Peter" being the rock, just doesn't seem to fit. How is this possible? That's what I did, with the goal of having Bible-centered beliefs. And theres multiple reasons for that we could get into it, but those are the two main communities that they go into. YouTube | You are using an out of date browser. By belonging to the Church, we are taken up into Christ and we become members of his Body (cf. Okay. Same is true here, if youre going to an Orthodox Church, youre moving away from those shepherds that Christ has placed in authority. We cant just wait forever. I want to become a part of a church. And I spent about three years in Eastern Orthodoxy but the entire time I continued to study the issue was involving Catholicism and Orthodoxy. What steps would I take to become an Orthodox Christian? The claim that the Creed was inviolable and can never validly be revised seemed implausible on its face. Mine are in their 20s, I still cant get them to the issues even when they come over. No, indeed. And I had had to suffer some things at the hands of bad clergy, my family and I, and a lot of that really just frankly, again, scandalized me. Apologist Michael Lofton, thanks for being with us. If we are to offer acceptable worship, we must worship in spirit and truth, understanding what we worship (John 4:22-23). I couldnt say one was holier than the other. Orthodox do not recognize the pope as having the kind of teaching and governing authority that the Catholic Church claims. Another consideration presented itself: If God set up the institution of the papacy, which group was he more likely to guide into a correct understanding of it: the group that possessed it or the group that was in separation from it? All rights reserved. And in fact, I mentioned Assisi 1986, unfortunately there are quite a few Orthodox representatives that participated in that event. When examining Catholicism, we see that the Catholic church has created dogmas such as papal infallibility and the immediate and universal authority of the Pope in the First Vatican Council as late as 1870. Especially your own faith: this is about your life, remember? Church Unity. Would you please, because Id like to know? So in a practical sense, if I leave Rome and head towards Greece, what will I find? The idea that it doesn't matter is a recent ecumenist invention, drawn from the school of thought that says things along the lines of "meh, all Christianity is the same". It is a thing to be endured sometimes we dont know why Christ asks us to endure these things, but we can take up our cross, we can live our vocation. Should I be Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox? The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and rests on the Son. Thanks very, very much. Im not going to rewash this dish, or something like that. While the era of new public revelation is now closed, it wasnt unreasonable that there be a special teaching charism associated with the office of the earthly leader of Gods people in the New Testament age. We come to this knowledge by hearing the proclamation of God which the Church provides. But I have to go downstairs every night and make sure that they do it right. It feels like Orthodoxy has really suffered a wound in recent years with some mutual excommunications. So there is an internal schism going on there. As a BetterHelp affiliate, we may receive compensation from BetterHelp if you purchase products or services through the links provided. Obey your conscience, live faithfully, pray diligently, keep learning more and more, and continuously humble yourself and be willing to change your mindallowing the Holy Spirit to guide you into the truth. 1. So objectively they have condemned it, but they do struggle with that practically. In time, you will be welcomed sacramentally into the Church and continue your ongoing path to the Kingdom of God. Should I become a Catholic, or Orthodox? They pray for the souls of the departed, which makes sense only if those prayers can help the departed in some way. A little over half of all Christians are Catholic, while a little under a quarter are Orthodox. No, the Ecumenical Councils devloped those things which could be developed (and needed to be because of arising heresies) when judged against the canon of the Faith. Right. Catholicism has invented new dogmas that are foreign to the early Church. what you do see is that St Peter did have a headship, but it was in terms of honor and not jurisdictional authority, and nowhere does some kind of special place pass merely to his successors in Rome. The oldest one is going to tell the others, Okay, you didnt do a good job here, make sure to do this. And as I noted earlier, the Second Vatican Council in Lumen Gentium paragraph 14 is very clear, If you know that Catholic Church is established by Christ and you were refuse to enter or remain in it, you cannot be saved.. We need your support in order to keep doing what were doing. Heretics were misinterpreting the former creeds clause concerning the Holy Spirit, so the fathers of Constantinople I revised it to prevent them from doing so. Hes now the proprietor of reason and theology and the St. Maximus the Confessor Institute. Well, there is a local Greek Orthodox Church that I was able to find refuge in. In these Mysteries the divine touches and transforms the human. In this post, we list some of the differences between the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches. Assuming that, after subsequent visits, you grow into the conviction that Orthodox Christianity is the fullness of Truth as revealed by Jesus Christ and discern your desire to embrace faith in Our Lord in its fullness, make your desire known to the parish priest, who will initiate the period of instruction and spiritual formation that eventually would lead to your reception into the Church. In what case would it ever be okay to take a step away from Christ? I cant name one. (Much more can be said on this subject, including the way it is possible to harmonize the Catholic and Orthodox positions on the matter, but this reflects what I could see at the time. There could be mitigating circumstances for a Catholic who goes from Catholicism to Orthodoxy. Not your personal beliefs, not your personal preferences, not what people you respect told you to do. Question For the past year or so I have been considering conversion to Orthodox Christianity. The longer I remain Catholic, the more I feel my relationship with God bending from love to fear. how so? That passage is very interesting in the Greek. At a certain point in my life it became clear that I could not remain a typical American Evangelical. so all bishops (and therefore, all Christians) are the rock if they hold to that confession of faith. Care to explain? It emerged in my reading that many Orthodox were prepared to make two key concessions regarding the papacy: that Jesus did give Peter a form of primacy over the other apostles (though this was conceived of first among equals role) and that the bishop of Rome is in a special sense the successor of Peter, though other bishops also may in some sense be Peters successors. correct? Is the grass greener in the Orthodox Church? I couldnt decide on the one, true faith based on which churches are in the local yellow pages. Again, Im not making judgments on any individuals, but I am saying objectively, its very dangerous territory. I don't believe i'm complete until i'm in union of the bride of Christ. Michael Lofton of the Reason and Theology podcast shares his experience of leaving Catholicism for Orthodoxy and eventually returning. And the Catholic tendency to say, Well, God didnt call the country, He called the church.. And the only antidote to entropy is decision, you have to choose. And as far as reunion, we might not have any luxury for waiting on reunion, because frankly, and I hate this because the thing that I want most is reunion between Catholics and Orthodox, I dont think its going to happen anytime soon. Though perhaps the least academically rigorous reason, the most important reason why I am Orthodox instead of Catholic is that Orthodoxy leads me closer to Christ in a way that Catholicism does not. I don't know what this is. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The Roman Catholic response to this almost always comes down to "Because we have the pope." So Im not making judgements necessarily on an individuals soul who goes from Catholicism to Orthodoxy, but Im just saying objectively speaking it is a schismatic act, which is objectively a grave sin. Yes, I believe in this. Im not saying that but what I am saying is, it is a step away from the perfect community that Christ established for us. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Thats absolutely right. Matt. In the early Church it was the Ecumenical Councils, not one single person. The Church fosters our prayer. Whatever community you find yourself in, community is the blessing and community is also the thing to be endured. Should I join Orthodox or Catholic? : r/Catholicism - Reddit We have a new thing here at Catholic Answers, affiliate apologist, which is it so far just been a great blessing to us and you are one of the first affiliate apologist of Catholic Answers so thanks for coming aboard. So, thats what I personally did. And then from Greek Orthodoxy back into the Catholic Church. Cy Kellett: The Orthodox Faith / Your answers are proving extremely helpful, I just want a bit more detail. Well, thats true of church as well. So if were concerned about Gods will, that should also be concerning for us. Both Eastern Orthodox and Catholics say the Nicene Creeds affirmation that the Church of Christ is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, but which has the better claim to those notes? The meaning of Catholic in Orthodoxy is the presence of the entire, fullfilled Church, possessing all the teachings and all the people - bishop, priest, deacon, monastics, and laity. What are you talking about? But we are headed for union with one another. Christ himself gave the Apostles the power of communicating the gifts necessary for the life of the Church. Rather than using the image of fire for the purification (cf. Do you happen to have any quotes? So you end up finding practically speaking that the grass isnt necessarily greener because you see certain things that are being, being promoted that you find in the Catholic Church. Galli's concern about ecclesial division, according to the RNS article, "left him exhausted.". Just because he had a prescribed place in the Church doesn't mean its a necessary place - the honor of Peter is also preserved in the honor given to any bishop. Through the Church, Christ himself is with us. The closest is four and a half hours away. To preface : I am a Catholic considering the Orthodox Faith. I dont think so because were taking a step away from Christ Himself. Its perfectly fine, youre still fully in communion with the Catholic Church. Because Christ himself willed its existence in order that we might achieve the goal to which we are called: theosis - participation in the divine life. One of the things that I think that is actually a barrier between Protestants, especially many evangelical or fundamentalist Protestants, but many Protestants in the United States and Catholics, is our understanding of the role of the nation in our faith. Should I join Orthodox or Catholic? He explains why he concluded he needed to be in communion with the pope, and why every Christian should. Yeah, theres a major division right now taking place between the Russian Orthodox Church and especially the Patriarch of Constantinople although its now spilled over into issues involving the Alexandrian patriarch hit. In his spare time he can be found reading the Bible and the Church Fathers or goofing off with his friends. I really appreciate you discussing this with us. We have a lot of interviews, a lot of round tables, a lot of debates, and a lot of discussions on all kinds of matters related to theology. is very difficult. So youre the founder of the St. Maximus the Confessor Institute and the Reason and Theology show? Orthodoxy aligns with their views more regarding that. Practically I dont actually know that much about the inner workings of the various Orthodox Churches. Evangelism dating or something, Im going to go and date a non-Christian in trying to convert them to Christianity.. Well, no, historys moving pretty quick right now and it is a decisive moment. What can the Church offer me? The Orthodox mindset leads me closer to Christ than Catholicisms mindset. Questions & Answers / The Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church (also known as the Orthodox Christian Church or, simply, the Orthodox Church) is the oldest and second largest Christian body in the world. So were going to have to make a decision within this lifetime. You must log in or register to reply here. Although the Divine Liturgy has certainly developed over time, this development is nowhere near the changes that have been implemented in the modern Roman Catholic Mass, which was massively changed with the promulgation of the Mass of Pope Paul VI in 1969 after the Second Vatican Council. this is why Rome had to make a place like Limbo for unbaptized babies and righteous pagans, who died outside of the Church. No, I don't think its true. Perhaps I picked the term up there and erroneously equated it in my mind. How does this happen? Orthodox do not have this issue. I dunno if you're comfortable receiving things from people on the internet or not, but I just remembered that I have it and really don't have much use for it myself (I'm Oriental Orthodox, and we have our own books about our differences with other churches; I just happened to pick this one up a few years ago because I had a gift card to a bookstore and couldn't find anything else). It may not display this or other websites correctly. How can a human being be brought into the life of the Trinitarian God? The Catholic Church does not claim that its pastors will use their teaching authority in the most prudent manner but only that they are protected from error when they use its full measure. Fed-up Catholics Shouldn't Turn to Orthodoxy Michael Lofton 3/2/2022 Download Audio only: Michael Lofton of the Reason and Theology podcast shares his experience of leaving Catholicism for Orthodoxy and eventually returning. All rights reserved. I think you should be Orthodox for the sake of your heart. The Mission of The Orthodox Church in America, the local autocephalous Orthodox Christian Church, is to be faithful in fulfilling the commandment of Christ to Go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. the main issue when it comes to RC is the papacy. In Rome, each person tells me One Thing About SSPX, Vatican II, Charismatism And NO Missae as well. Allan J. McDonald, Pope Francis Adds Coptic Orthodox Martyrs to Liturgical Book of Saints. If you can support us financially, we would appreciate your support. Theres a real sense in which theyre then disobeying me if they disobey them, because I put the oldest in authority. Including the word makes the Creed inaccurate. On a subject this far from human experience, my feeble mind could not be relied upon. Theres plenty of reasons to leave, there always will be, but now they seem particularly a cute doesnt mean its time to leave. This is looking from afar, but it seems like theres a nationalism problem in Orthodoxy. If something disagrees with that faith, or is a new addition to that faith, it is not allowed. In fact, in some cases, unfortunately I think it might be scorched to earth. Link Copied! As I learned more about Orthodoxy, another set of factors seemed to weigh against it. it blurs the distinction between Father and Son by saying that the Spirit's origin is in Them both. On the surface, Orthodox Christianity and Roman Catholicism can seem similar: both celebrate the sacraments, believe in the authority of the Church, have a common liturgical tradition to draw on, and seek to follow Jesus Christ. Now, there are other options for people who dont have a local Orthodox parish available to them. Its more of my honor than it is for you I guarantee you because, again, I greatly benefited from Catholic Answers, especially at the time of my conversion and in several years, even afterwards. But that wouldnt have deterred me. But the inclusion of thefilioquein Latin versions of the Creed is a historical fact, and the question of whether it was prudent to add it in that way did not tell me anything about whether the Catholic Church had the authority to do it.